by Meg E. Cox
When Rep. Joe Wilson shouted, “You lie!” at President Obama earlier this month, he was reacting to the president’s claim that “the [health-insurance] reforms I am proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.” Wilson later explained to reporters why he had called Obama a liar: Republicans had proposed that proof-of-citizenship requirements be added to health-care bills then making their way through the House, and their proposals had been rejected.
If the Obama administration doesn't plan to insure undocumented immigrants, why do Democrats refuse to require proof of citizenship? Is asking people to prove their eligibility for benefits really such a big deal?
Actually, it is. In a national survey conducted in 2006, the Brennan Center for Justice found that 13 million Americans lack documents with which to prove citizenship. The League of Women Voters of Georgia points out (pdf download) that for some people, documenting citizenship is impossible. "For instance," League staffers wrote during the recent voter ID controversy in Georgia, "in certain parts of the country, elderly African Americans and many Native Americans were born at home, under the care of midwives, and do not possess certificates."
The most shocking figure in the Brennan Center report is 32 million: the estimated number of voting-age women in the U.S. who possess citizenship documents but do not have such a document that shows their current legal name.
It may not make good budget sense to relegate undocumented immigrants to expensive emergency-room care. But that aside, if lawmakers do want to restrict access to benefits, they can do so by creating penalties for unlawful applicants. It is not necessary to create a documentation dragnet that ensnares nearly a third of eligible adult women, and many others besides.
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16 comments:
Not to mention that I really don't want to take my birth certificate along to every doctor's office visit.
These same Dems require proof of citizenship in order to speak at town hall meetings.
I find the arguments being made by liberal Dems simply ridiculous. No, Joyful Alternatives, the amendments shot down by Dems did not require people bring birth certificates to every doctors visit.
Just be honest... I know its hard for liberals to do, but you want illegals covered and you want them voting in elections. No big deal. Lets be honest so the American people can get some solid information.
That wednesday night speech where Obama was calling Americans liars and distorting the facts was not helpful to your cause. The media did its job and exposed the speech for what it was. Now Obamas credibility suffers more than before.
Lets try some honesty...
I generally try to resist feeding the trolls, but I have to say, Anonymous, that I share your interest in honest discussion. In that spirit, I'd appreciate it if you would
- tell us who you are, by using your name or linking a nickname to your own site
- refrain from claiming to know other peoples' secret motives and goals
Let's try some honesty.
The motives I spoke of are no secret. I've read them in other recent posts.
I have yet to hear a compelling argument in support of Obama saying illegals will not be covered. Thank you Steve Thorngate for keeping the streak alive.
The recent violence and slander against those opposing the presidents health reform efforts have made it easy for me to justify posting Anonymously. I might be gutless, but I'm not gonna run out in front of a bus to prove my courage.
My goal in posting is not to get a pretentious response. If you have a problem with responding to people you perceive as trolls, go ahead and remain silent. Its obvious you'd rather change the subject than deal with the substance anyway.
Dear Anon,
I thought the ground rules for the CC blog were like those of the House of Representatives, that we are all supposed to be civil with one another. Why are pulling a Joe Wilson on us? The problem of how to handle illegal immigrants is serious and difficult in my view. What should we do? Jesus would say that we should welcome the stranger in our midst, bind up his/her wounds, and bring healing to all peoples. We also need a reasonable policy to deal with those who break the laws of our land. Hurling insults at the President or at CC bloggers does not move us toward a sense of Christian understanding of difficult problems.
You know david, you are right. These are serious and difficult problems we are dealing with. I personally feel we need to have a balanced approach that is compassionate while not creating further incentives for people to come here illegally. There are thousands who work the legal channels and wait years to get into this great country. Sending people to the front of the line because they came here illegally sends a bad message and exasperates the problem.
Thats why its very important people look closely at the bills currently being debated and not the imaginary bill Obama seems to be talking about.
Its real easy to see Joe Wilsons outburst as out of line, but if you listen to Obamas speech that night you will hear him calling a large portion of the American public dishonest again and again for 40 minutes prior to the outburt. After Joes outburst, the media investigated Obamas statements regarding coverage of illegals and found his words to be false. That Saturday the White House released a document admitting they were in fact wrong and that in order for illegals not to be covered the bill would need to be ammended.
I ask you whos actions were more offensive that night. Obama was either uninformed or trying to mislead and at the same time expecting his credibility to trump the Americans he and the media are trying to portray as dishonest. Perhaps Obama was more civil in tone, but the meaning was just as offensive to the target. He falsely directed a "You lie!" at the people he is elected to serve.
Steve Thorngate, if you want to criticize people for judging others motives, how about an article calling out Jimmy Carter for saying racism is the motive for objections to the Democrat health reform plans. Its completely untrue and provides a distraction from the legitimate concerns shared by a large portion of the American public.
I wish arguments like this didn't carry us so far from the point of the original post. I'd like to know what folks think about the possibility that citizenship verification could bar millions of eligible citizens from receiving coverage.
This could happen to me if I can't produce a link between the "Margaret" I was born as and the "Meg" I became; even my marriage license doesn't explain that. It could happen to each commenter's sister or mother or daughter.
Everyone cool with that?
Margaret,
How about this? Without requiring some sort of documentation proving that you even live in the country, what will stop people from legally vacationing in the US and showing up at the doctors office to receive free health care? Simply leave all forms of ID at the hotel, get your treatments, pick up your free prescriptions and head to Disneyland.
People in the country are in a great disadvantage if they have no legal forms of ID. I think if Obama proposed a plan to get all Americans free US Identification cards that the poor helpless people you mention could use to get on airplanes, speak at Dem town hall meetings, get a job and other places they are currently required, it would have near unanimous support.
Just recently I've been required to show a picture ID when I go to the doctor's office. So what happens when old people who don't drive go there? They even wanted my husband's Social Security number, which I don't carry with me. Neither do I carry my own SS card.
And what would be the standard when a child, say a "brown" child, it hit by a car? Do you treat the child, or refrain because there are no papers?
Don't forget, those people who have no insurance, no regular doctor, even if they have some catastrophic insurance, or those people who can't get insurance or are illegals here, they end up in the ER for bad, expensive stuff, so we all pay anyway. Why not streamline this and just treat anybody? It couldn't possibly be more expensive than more bureaucracy.
When Americans go to countries with good national health care plans, they often are treated for little or no cost. Right now, so people won't vacation in the US because they know if they get sick here, it will bankrupt them.
Couple additional thoughts on Megs concerns.
I find it interesting you feel the government is competent enough to take control of the US health system, but incompetent to the point they'd have trouble with the fact that Meg is your nickname.
Do you have a drivers license? Do you have a passport? Apparently Meg believes she is hopelessly stuck in the US with no hope of traveling abroad. Somehow Meg they do figure that stuff out.
To PS: Your thoughts are exactly the problem with government today. They spend money like its monopoly money and in the process making our currency worthless. Do you know what inflation is? The government has a responsibility to spend our money wisely. The American people lose confidence in their government when they see tax dollars spent helping pimps and hookers get loans for a brothel (as in the recent Acorn scandals for those of you getting your news from traditional sources).
Sorry, Meg, for dragging the conversation away from the issue you are raising. I know many people in exactly the situation you are talking about who are caught in an odd catch-22 with documentation.
But reading through the discussion, I thought of a situation that occurred recently when I was in a small town in Mexico. My six year-old son got violently ill in the middle of the night. He threw up for hours, and none of us got any sleep. In the early morning, the cab driver came for us. My son continued to throw up in the car. The cab driver asked, "Why didn't you have the hotel desk call a doctor?" The thought had never occurred to me. The driver informed me that any doctor would have come to the hotel in the middle of the night to check in on my son. For free. And I'm pretty sure I haven't paid any taxes in Mexico.
Amy,
Perhaps something was lost in translation.
Mexico does have a public insurance system but its not a free for all system.
But please, Amy, finish the story.
Did your son get treatment?
How was the quality?
Would you have had confidence using those same facilities/doctors for a life threatening illness?
What did it end up costing you?
Nothing happened. We got on an airplane and experienced many uncomfortable hours. We watched our son carefully over the next few days. Because of our own health insurance realities, we are not in the habit of taking our son to the doctor except as a last resort. Fortunately, he got better without a doctor's care.
Here's an example of people born to midwives being unable to prove their citizenship:
http://www.latinalista.net/palabrafinal/2008/07/federal_officials_deny_passports_to_midw.html
Look folks, this is not about the cost. Health care is always going to cost lots of money, and even in Canada (my home) we effectively have a two-tier system - if you want specialized treatment, or tests not covered by the federally funded, provincially managed system, you must find a way to pay. The question that needs to be asked, from a faith perspective especially, is how much of a gap will you have between your own two tier system? Private, for-profit health care is well entrenched in the US; it will always be available to those who can pay; to those who have 'proper documentation' Accept that some form of publicly funded health care is a good idea - not to mention a fair and just idea - and then ask, "who deserves such justice?"
jeff lackie,
we actually have federally funded health care. My family has been helping a homeless man for the past 4 months. He's been staying with us, we paid for him to visit a dentist and get dentures, visit a doctor and take care of his needs.
Yesterday we took him to a thrift store to get some more clothes. They pointed us to a government agency where for a one time payment of $60, his health care is covered for life no matter what state he is in. He will now be getting monthly checks to cover his daily expenses like food and clothes. Had we known about what was available, we could have signed him up months ago and had most of his expenses paid for by the program. He has a slight mental handicap but was too proud to claim disability. Had he done that, he would have received enough money for an apartment and larger government subsidy.
We are actually not talking about a system to help the poor. We have that. I read a news story recently that showed if we simply divided up the money spent on federal welfare programs amongst the poor, there would be enough to bring everyone above the poverty line. We are a very generous country when it comes to helping the poor.(thats probably never been written on this site before)
We are talking about solving the problem of unaffordable health care for the people who don't qualify for welfare but not able to pay for health care. We are also talking about the high costs of health care for everyone.
The main problem I have with government run health care is there is no evidence adding another level of bureaucracy will reduce health cost. All the evidence points in the opposite direction.
I'm opposed to creating a system where visiting the doctor becomes like visiting the DMV, the forms for filing claims are created and processed by the IRS, and decisions about what is covered becomes a political football that changes based on who controls Washington.
Since liberals like to claim the opponents of the Dem health plans don't support anything, here is what I believe needs to be done. And these things have actually been proposed in Washington:
Health insurance should be changed to cover major expenses. We don't get homeowners/renters insurance to cover normal maintenance.
All health expenses should be tax deductible. Currently they are only deductible if they reach a certain percentage of income.
Subsidise health care for low income people via a wicks type program and allow people to save money in a tax deductible medical saving acount to pay for normal medical expenses.
A huge problem with skyrocketing health insurance costs is that everything is covered. When was the last time you compared the cost of visiting one doctor as opposed to another? Visiting a family physicion as opposed to a walk in clinic? The only competition amongst providers is for who can provide the most extravagant facilities or advanced treatments. If for example, people had to decide whether they want to pay extra for a hospital room with an ocean view, costs would come down.
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